MAR 7 2023 | What’s Love Got to Do With It S1E2

Sea Change Church · What's Love Got to Do With It Ep 2 · March 7, 2023
Automated transcript. Not reviewed for accuracy.

Here. What is going on Welcome Back to the Hoy Christian Fellowship podcast. My name is Pastor Adam Statler and I am here with a crew today and my co-host India Kern. She'll be introducing herself in just a second. We are back on the flip side of a podcast on dating and relationships got a hand-picked group of studs that I brought in every bit of the dating life. Some of us have been married long time some of us about five six years.

Newly married dating trying to be dating. So we're kind of we're all here. So like I said, I'm Adam and the first question I'm gonna ask we'll start with India. She'll already said this in the last podcast, but what your age and what is your dating rank? Where are you in the dating world right now India, and then we'll come back around this way.

Yes, my name is India Kern and I am 51 and I'm married. I'm a certified divorce coach and a life coach and I help people who are struggling. In relationships. Okay. All right. I'm Keegan Wetzel. I'm 31. I ranked second on the couch in dating. Newly married newly married. Okay between three and four months. Yeah. I am 27 and I've been married for six years in May.

And I did both of their weddings which was a huge honor like when someone asks you to do their wedding, it's it's such a big deal and they had like really cool weddings. I was really cool moment appreciation. Yeah, that's all good. Hey Luke, Jameson. I'm 25 and I'm currently dating. My name is Vinny. I am 23 years old and I am single.

And once again now, oh, you're you're East Coast now you got the the Mets add-on, right? Yes. Okay and Luke, you're from Florida, right San Diego Kid One race Keegan, Chicago. Yeah Klim Chicago group here, but I think Chicago. Okay. Yeah, it's a good that's a good claim. Yeah, San Diego me and Georgia and make it make it make in Georgia. So reason I bring that up is because as we talk about dating, I do think I think things are a little different in different places in the country and maybe that's changing.

Maybe we're becoming more Global in the way we think about it, but I know that the dating in the in the South was way different than here East Coast was a little bit different West Coast. I'm gonna start with a question that I ask the ladies the last time and the question had to do with rolls now roles in relationships. Even roles and gender are something that are no longer. Well for a lot of people many people at least the the rumor is There's no such thing as roles anymore. If you're into roles, you're you're old school. You're you're like 17th century. I don't personally find that true. And we asked the ladies. What's the role of a man in a in a relationship? And I want to just do it on the flip side before I ask you what you think the role of man is. Let me start out with you guys. What do you think the role of a woman is in regard to dating? And once again in the context, we're Church.

We're church people. So we're talking about church. We will talk about the secular World, maybe how it was, you know when you were dating and maybe you weren't in the church, but what's the role of of the ladies? Is there a role for them in dating? Is it just stand and wait to be asked to dance? What is it? Keegan look right you look right here. Um, I certainly think there's a role. I don't know. It is somewhat secular in nature, but like in my early to mid 20s, I certainly aspired to find a relationship that I would have considered equally yoked.

which looked a lot more to me that time of like You know, we it's a dual income household. We both work hard. We split responsibilities for the church or for the church for the children. If there are children, you know at the time that you're dating you split responsibilities for the mortgage payment or the rent payment or planning for things or the time has been with each other's families.

Like I just wanted to be very Progressive in nature and that like it wasn't like I made all the decisions, you know, and cheated all the support but I was looking for that but that didn't bring me any happiness really or any fulfillment in the relationships that I had. I looked so you're looking for the egalitarian like just total Equity total equality in regard to that'd be a pretty nice way to say. I think the time I was definitely like power couple like that's what I was looking for, you know? Okay, it was a pretty rudimentary stance that I had not quite as eloquent as you laid it out and I think about time I was maybe like 27. She said a really wise Mentor. My name is Sherry who is a Godly woman talk about how you know, there's nothing wrong with that. But for many thousands of years General roles have worked in a household and maybe there's not like everything in the world wrong with that and I started to adopt some belief that there Israel. So I think a woman's role in a dating relationship is to be a leader in a lot of ways but it isn't to be equally yoked in the same responsibilities as a man. Nothing to cop out and not going into what those responsibilities are, but I do think that there's individual responsibilities.

In regard, let's let's start with the dating. I think we're going to keep then we'll move into like maybe the marriage and where it goes from there in regard to dating like what what would you be comfortable with with the role of a woman? Like are you comfortable with a woman like if she came and asked you out? Yes. So then yes, no Luke. No, no.

Yeah, I'm a no two. What about you? I would would probably be a yes, okay. Yeah, and would you ask it? I don't yeah, you wouldn't you. Okay, you're like I never had to know. Southern girl. Yeah, okay, that really is not something I ever did I dated in the 90s and then I got married to my first husband and then we were divorced in 2011, but even during that period of dating never did apps because I just happen to get set up on a blind date, but I would have never asked.

I so I was struggling to think about you know, different roles and dating but when you ask that specific question for me, it's the honor of a man to lead an intentionality. Right and I feel as though if a woman were to ask me out, right there's a little bit of impatience on her end and a little bit of lack and Trust in my ability to execute and lead and in that regard.

So that's why for me. It's a no, right? You got to let me lead in the initiation of the relationship. Yeah. Let me lead in the you know, I guess the culture that we're gonna start out on. Right. So yeah for me to know. Luke yeah, I think I think the role should be. male leadership and pursuing the girlfriend and eventually a wife and I think the Bible kind of talks about that in Proverbs. It says like who can find a good wife and who can you know, a wife is more valuable than gold seek after it. You know, it's it's very it seems very clear that that the man should really be the one pursuing that Yeah, I don't think that's prescriptive for everyone. That's what I think though.

Yeah, I mean don't only reason why I feel comfortable with a woman asking me out. It's just because of the culture that we live in today where I feel like now, it's more it's okay for women to be more outspoken and go off and pursue a man rather than just like The Stereotype of you know, like the women's stay quiet in the corner in the mailman pursues them, but I definitely do agree on there are gender roles in a relationship, but just speaking on that aspect of it of just asking someone out or the girl making A choice. I'm not like totally against.

Yeah, and I don't think there's any. like you said prescriptives like in the Bible, there's no women don't ask men now, you know, there's there's none of that but there is a Feels like there's some kind of written in the interior code and I think I'm I think I liked to think not one to ask me out. I want to lead the chivalry in the honor and all that. But then before we got started I was I was trying to I try to be really honest with myself and my opinions and like am I just thinking that I thought if I was back in college or in high school and there was a few girls like in high school who were just not in my league meaning they were in this league and I was like in the B league and I you know what I mean, and if I thought if they would have asked you out what would you have said like would you have held to that standard of s*** every year? I wouldn't totally gone. So, you know, I I think Probably at this point in my life. I probably you know that is important to me and I don't it's not like I feel Dishonored but or anything like that or I have to be a big stud that goes around but it's just like I know the room like Like women need to know that as a man every like most men I think at least I did I knew every woman in the college group. We had a big giant college group. I knew everyone in there there was none that escaped my notice, you know what I mean? And it was like Hey if I want to initiate something I'm going to but not everybody has that kind of like there's some guys that just don't have the ability to do that. What do you tell the guys that don't?

Really know how to do that initi. I would say. I think like a lot of us. I think we're all pretty pretty athletic. I mean, yeah, he's got a hockey injury here. I did invite most of the guys on my basketball team. Yeah everything to be in this podcast. So it's gonna the point is I think like my the competition makes me better and iron sharpens iron. So it's like, you know if you're waiting to be asked out.

You know you can you can take cues from other guys that are are taking that leadership role and then you know that honestly inspires other other men to go do that I think and since competition in the dating. I think there is a little bit of healthy competition to be the best you can be. And the best man you can like maybe competitions the wrong word, but we're just driving to be the best. I don't mind that word. I I matter fact to be to be the guy that like women will say like The kind of guy I want to be with and to be that man, but just not all matches work is what sometimes as well. So there's the competition doesn't matter because it that guy's not gonna work for me. He's not going to work, you know.

So Vinny you're dating right? Are you dating anyone specifically? No, not at the moment. What what's the many dating life? Well actually in New York thing out here in California they do they do right surprising. I'm like, I don't want to see you. Okay? beautiful poop brown on you But the dating life for me, it's a little I wouldn't say restricted but it's it's more honed in on the online dating. So a lot of apps and ever since I became a Christian I decided to get off like the big ones like like Tinder and Bumble and and if I was gonna use an app more like a Christian sound app like upward that's a very popular 23 23.

So when did you start using? like apps When I was maybe 19 when I moved out here, I was dating a girl when I moved out here and then we broke up because we couldn't do the long distance because of the military. So then I started hopping on. Tinder and Bumble hang out hold that hold that thought we're gonna come back to that. Yeah, what we're dating apps to us like and people that did dating apps and websites.

I didn't ever do anything. But what did our generation think about that? We at first here. You see? Yeah. Yeah, everything's changed. I'm talking like I got married 97. Oh, yeah, we didn't do it. But even through the 2000s it's like in the beginning it was kind of I think we had a little judgy little judgy. Yeah. Well, that's all and so it's kind of changing so okay. I have a question. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah, please so when you were on I don't know where you were in your your spiritual walk. But when you were on those apps, did you make it in your profile that you were Christian? Yes. Okay, I wonder about that.

This was a problem that I actually faced with Tinder a while ago is that they took that religious preference out so they would have like your zodiac sign and pronouns, but they wouldn't like have you ready? Yeah all that, but you couldn't list whether you were a Christian a Muslim a Jew anything. So that's where I was just That's kind of it for me. And then also just the culture of the people on that app.

They weren't really okay with Christianity a lot of my experiences. I'd be like I'd be they'd be like, oh, what's your typical Sunday morning look like and I'd be like I'd go to church and like you're a Christian. I'm like, yeah, and then I would like just hit the they would hit the unmatch button on me. So I saw that 57% of people on dating apps are willing to have a sexual encounter in the first like three weeks. Yeah, like some massive numb whether they're you know, statistics work or whatever, but let's just say it's a super high number.

Did you find like like? Women are aggressive that way. I don't know. I never know. I don't know rather just turned into Vinny's dating Life podcast. Sorry. This is a fascinating thing guys. Thanks. I'm here for it if I would say aggressive. But they would definitely try to initiate sex on the first date. Wow more than I expected honestly and like, you know, I'm very reserved with dating. So like I have to really really like you and feel comfortable just to kiss you on the first day and that's gonna kiss on the first day that I've done that before I'd be lying if I said I did But normally I'm like a third date kind of guy your third day. Kisser. Yeah. I'm a third date kisser. I love the morale you're going but thank you. I gotta keep him waiting, you know.

But there has been times where like we wind up kissing and then it'll be initiated on me. Like they'll initiate like they want to have sex and I'll be like whoa, like what's going on here and then that kind of creates like an awkwardness and then there's usually never a second date. Interesting Luke here been just dating again recently in a relationship. What was You know in regard to like the timing of those type of things.

Like in regard to you know asking someone out. I mean what would be I don't need to know your exact history. But what do you think is the right way to go? Is that is that too fast? Is that depend on the relationship? Yeah, I think well, I think on like how you guys met one night. I feel pretty strongly. Against some forms of online dating just because those statistics you guys just talked about so I think like really depends on how you meet and then I would say, you know, make an effort to get to know somebody first.

And then start to initiate dating and actively pursuing them and then I mean, you know what happens happens, I guess. I'm just here for the ride at that point, but let me clarify that so like sexually there for the ride before you're married. No. No, that's what they're clarify. Yeah, keep it. Yeah keeping it scriptural. Obviously. I I yeah.

Oh, you started dating your wife and your what 14 or 15? Well, I mean that technically a little different technically it was 15, but my mom had this rule to I couldn't date till I was 16. So I had to wait like six months out recording before that, I guess so, I guess I was cording. I was doing my friend Brian's house. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean a 15 16 everyone call it. It's been a over 10 years that I've been with her in almost six years married. Like I said, and I'm grateful that better in high school because I wouldn't survive in dating. I'm so awkward. I swear I put my foot in my mouth. I wouldn't know what to do.

Wouldn't know what to do. I've noticed that about you you're a guy that looks like you're outward appearance is so much gain, but then you'll put your foot in your mouth. Yeah the relationship. Yeah, it's big facts big facts, which that yeah, I can't tell you how many times someone saw me and said there's so much different that I thought you were gonna be. You know I'm saying, so yeah, that's that's something I hear very often as I get missed typed a lot.

Here you would say I mean you've been telling your history you in math Maverick cool name for his wife. Yeah. I'm Maverick. We basically two relationships. We were together seven years with like a little bit under a year break in between but really the break. We're only like not talking at all for a handful of months. So it's kind of like two different three year relationships.

Before we got married. and what is You've changed a lot. I mean your faith it just you're really wearing your faith way different than I met you even a year ago. Would you do anything different? Like in regard to the way you approach but you were so young. I mean, it's hard when you met so long. Yeah, I mean Mavericks and listen to this and she's gonna be like a hundred percent. We would have done stuff. Yeah, and that's a yes, but I don't know that I would have the opportunity to do things differently if I didn't do them in correctly.

Or differently the first time so I don't know that's a fair assessment. Like I mean you can get into the full like Game Theory right is like well this decision would have led to that decision. Then would we've ever gotten to this right so I'm not quite sure I would say by and large. Yes, there's some definitive things that I would have been differently but a different mindset and approach would have been maybe the first thing that would have accelerated talked about that. What's what should the minds? I like that?

What do you mean my mindset? What's the right mindset two-fold? I think one of them is is secular in my faith walk and that's the larger one the second one which was kind of the undergirding that pulled me into that was just like what I was Desiring and looking for and that largely came through for me personally. It was seeking different mentorship that was outside of the military. I didn't have a very healthy Network in circle there.

I proceed business that's kind of where I found a calling and like my mid 20s. I found some great mentorship organizations. I started getting really into personal development taking a lot of ownership over what I was doing and where I was focusing my time and efforts and who I was spending time within and what relationships look like I got to deconstruct a lot of my past and what unhealthy relationships look like and what I was kind of For me particularly or specifically I was I was attracted to my wife because of all these things. She had that I didn't she had an amazing Faith walk. She was so caring she can tell you everybody's birthdays, you know off the top of her mind. She's like always on top of all the little things that truly matter and those things attracted me to her because those were areas that I was maybe weak and then I tried to in our relationship our first relationship change her to be exactly like me and not do any of those things. And so it was like, of course that wasn't gonna work like that was a bad approach. There's a bad mindset around like why are we dating? What are your roles to go back to that?

So that changed a lot and then faith for me was always there but not very active because I was just so tied up in the incongruencies that I found in faith, and so it's so strongly believe Two three four certain things but then I would spend three years internally fighting. How can we both have free will and an omnition and omnipotent God and it would just like disable me from functioning at all. And I never really like revolted against my faith. It was just completely inactive dormant like in the closet, you know collecting dust, right and I want to step into that what I would have done differently because as I'm listening to him talk she's definitely a lot of things would have done differently.

I don't think I let in my relationship with Eden until I hit like 24 or 25. So you're talking about already. Close to 10 years in my relationship and I just started leading. You know, I'm saying and one thing that really sticks out to me is I would have got married in college like sophomore year. That's my next question. Yeah, man. Let me step into that. Yeah do that.

It's so I did not feel like I had the support to do so and I was afraid at what everybody else would think and that's why I said I now truly lead because if you know my life what you do, I'm doing things that Former, Devin would think would make him look completely idiotic or like like a loser but I don't care because I know I'm leading with how God wants me to lead. I know I'm walking into things that he's called me to right and so I really don't care too much about the way in which I appear to people as long as I'm aligned above and back then it was all about. What does everybody else think not only that I didn't feel like I had the support so I wasn't leading and I was concerned with other people were expectations on me. And so that literally led to a lot of struggles within my college life and early on my marriage my wife and I actually had to take a couple breaks in college.

So yeah, that's and again you can get into how would it have changed everything. Would you be the man you are now if you had not made those mistakes? Yeah. That's a big one. I probably would have got married in college. I can wholeheartedly agree that even with as much growth as I feel like we had to do in our relationship and Maverick as well. But particularly me in the relationship part.

I had a lot of other things I think figured out about where we wanted to go in life personal values Financial values how he felt about familiar members, but I should have got married a whole lot sooner. It's been awesome just in nothing changes and everything changes with the stroke of a pen. And really having the opportunity for us.

It was to pronounce our faith in front of other people and give them a chance that may I mean my wife says the best she's like these people at our wedding may never there's people here not a lot of them but a handful of them that may never hear the gospel anywhere, but from you at our wedding and then everything we do is the united front from there and it's it's changed the way approach everything slowly but over just like three months. It's it's quite a bit already and I'm thinking back to a question you asked earlier about like would you be okay with the girl asking you out, you know the woman making the first move?

And I'm probably the minority that says yes there. I think it's largely because as I'm thinking about like what would you do differently? I really and Vinny hit this like culture shifted so much like people's attention span is so short, you know, you scroll on your phone and if it's not in the first like two tenths of a second it's gone and I kind of felt the same way in my early 20s before I met MAV with dating like Attention span was just everything and I either didn't want to or never had to like make the first move and I really wanted to know that somebody else was serious first and some of those ships are bad. Some of them were pretty good. But I just wanted to at least know that there was intent there along the right direction from from a woman first and I didn't think I was willing to like for lack of a better term waste my time if there wasn't, you know in pursue that roof and absolutely it is a waste of time but I also never built the skill set of like walking across the room and talking to somebody who didn't know my name and asking them out like but that's that's a pretty hard like zero to 100, you know on the other side of a bar. I think that's like a stretch to start a good relationship there but on second base one she was a second baseman. I hit a double and I asked her out you're playing on the woman. I was not playing with it was a co-ed team. Okay, that's literally called playing the field. That's she was from Georgia and she ended up saying no because she was moving back to Georgia. You want to get into relationships. I want to ask this is really interesting because this idea of getting married early is um, I think it's starting to slowly come back into Vogue parents are terrified of kids getting married early my daughter. My daughter's have both asked me recently. What do you think? I'm like if you found somebody got married at 18, I'm all for it. Like you have the support network. You have the mental health you have The emotional health you have you it wasn't like, you know, I was grew up in alcoholic family and my parents got divorced.

There was certain emotions that weren't on the table. I didn't know what I was doing. Like we about killed ourselves the first five years. I was married but my kids have the skills that I didn't have. You know, how do you feel as a you're a mom? You got daughters what 17 19 I would say for them right now a little bit more time. I have almost 18 year old and a 20 year old and I just think that they're just not ready and I wasn't ready at that time either. I also came out of dysfunction and I didn't know what I wanted like you were talking about your values. I didn't know that it took me going through a divorce to start identifying what I even wanted and like what I stood for and so I I don't know that my girls are ready or if they know they're they're core values and what they're looking for yet. I think they need to Some more time so women are actually not.

They're dating less. They're less relationships. I say over 50% of women will be single by 2035 the average age for women in America to marry is 31 in Europe. It's 33 that gives them if let's say the birthing age is to 40 right that gives them a seven year birthing window if they want a birth, you know, so I mean women are staying why are women staying single and then the fertility rates are down? There's like all this weird.

You know, is it in the water? I don't know. So I mean fertility race to be down if you're having kids later on in life because the road that you get the less likely you are to be able to have children. No, you know fair enough. I mean the culture is so individualistic now. Yeah, I think they tell us you don't need companionship to make it through life. You don't need to follow God follow God's law. Yeah. Do it on your own. Yeah, you know listen to this listen to that.

And if you root your life in scripture, you'll find that. Yeah good to do life with the companion. Like that's absolutely yeah. We should look for that. Yeah, but I would that's if I guess that's well. I I hear people all the time especially women like I don't need a man. I'm I guess you do. Yeah and go ahead. I want to step into that. We have a hustle culture, right? What's your side hustle? What's your business? Are you out there getting it and then it's like okay you go out there and your hustle and you get all you know, the dose like what you use for? I don't know everybody's husbands. I got a hustle, you know I'm saying and so I feel like if you're hustling right then you get in the back your head. Well, I can't get a significant us other because then they'll stop my grind. They'll stop my hustle and I was talking to people about that with people at work. Just being you know, young college students.

Like yeah, you know, I can't have you know a wife or a girlfriend or this because they'll distract me and he and I came to the agreement like no they enrich your experience. So I just think going along with like the hustle culture and that correlates to the individuality. That's delaying why people want to get married, you know for me my wife.

Like I said, I didn't leave when we first got married. She kind of strong Army, but I was like, I got to have this set up this set up this setup and she's like why and she just refuted everything and I was like, I really know I guess we can get married, you know saying type things. So absolutely. Yeah, you want to have all your ducks in a row but something my dad told me was there's never a right time to get married.

It says the same thing. Yeah, but for verbatim, yeah, and he was right. Glad your guys's dad says that my dad tells me never get married. Yeah, which is interesting because marriage and family. Is seen as a hindrance now, it's like yeah, that's right. That's gonna talk about it. It's not really celebrated. Like I don't know if you look.

Not that long ago the 90s were a great era like it was like the 90s they're growing on me. Yeah, it was good 90s. Yeah good coffee. Good run for my bowls. It was good for the pool. Still haven't seen that Jordan jersey Madison. Not on me. Oh that's on right. Now. Do you really? Yeah. They got a little logo on that side. I think different things are celebrated to your point. And it's kind of my dad does a great job of describing this how it's like rotational like fashion. Like there's only so many ideas like things just kind of just right like 30 years puppy shoulders again pretty soon. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think I think things kind of get cycled and there's things that take a major shift but used to be celebrated if you could like, you know, if you're great in the kitchen used to be celebrated if you were like a really good dad who could be there at 2PM on Tuesdays and Thursdays like that's not celebrated right now and I heard from uncles as well and and people that I was close with and guys who got married the day we graduated or the day after graduate from the Naval Academy and had two kids and we're divorced within three years, you know, never get married. And so you hear that for me probably like you've been you know, the military and there's plenty things that never been able to do except during the military on a 17 That I had to get out of my system and learn a lot of those things but a lot of the personal values I already knew I just been in green with culture. That wasn't a good.

I think I was just reading it right before we got married and I wish I would have found it years earlier. But again what I've been receptive, I don't know but it's Pages 44 and 45 of the meaning of marriage by by Tim Keller and it just talks about how and Ronnie talked about at church this past weekend that a man is to be too his wife or a man in a relationship just says Christ was to the church that sacrificial love but it furthermore pointed for me to and that whole book did as many books do marriage is not between like a man and woman like there's three people involved in America. I was for five or six years thinking like I need to be ready to be everything from my wife. Like I need to be able to be all these things right and that's not true at all like we both have to be Most focus on helping ourselves and then our spouse get to heaven.

Not on fulfilling all those things for our spouse a priesthood to my cousin's wedding. I think said it the best when he was like Your focus from here on out is not pleasing your spouse. It's first and foremost fulfilling the word of God and entering into the Gates of Heaven and second trying to set a leadership example for them to follow but you can't make them do it. I was like, whoa, like it just like it's funny how I thought can just unlock that much like shackles fell off me. I saw a diagram once it was a marriage retreating. I think and The Sinner was gone and then the orbits were wife and husband and then the orbit out of that was children. So the sinner the most important thing was God and then everything first, you know wife and husband then children, so it's not what we are taught or what we see as children center and not God I said Devin jumped in I said that, you know women say I don't need a man and I would say to men who say I don't need a woman. God said, yes you do. You know, that's the biblical model that there is no you Can't exchange one for the other you need it a man and a woman or create this this these parts of God's character and I believe that there's an expression of God's character as it says in Romans in the way.

He created men in the way. He created women he expressed as in his creation. You can understand his invisible qualities in his divine nature. It says in Romans, so everything whether it's a son or a flower you can find something about God you could probably find an infinite amount of things about God but there's certain things that he poured into and and you know, especially with man, I think he poured certain elements in I do think that women live closer to their heart and when it comes to that my wife, I need to let my wife lead so I believe in egalitarian leadership within the home and within the church, I believe that women we're set free from the curse that was in that happened in the garden and it is our job is meant to bring them back into a full understanding of working alongside us with in Christ. So there's places in our marriage with my wife leads, and she's better at it, but I it doesn't work if I'm constantly Making all these spiritual leadership decisions because I'm the leader of the home. My wife respects me as as she looks me. She wants me to lead the home. She's out when I don't pray when I'm not leading her in prayer when I'm not she and more than leadership the word that kind of sticks for me is initiation. My wife wants me to initiate and it's a less of a hot button word. But then women at the same time, you know back to this.

What's the next question we didn't get into yet was this role of what is women's what are women looking for but women have a role in letting a guy know that they're available. You know what I mean? If you're gonna call children and expect him to break through that I see barrier like I knew I was pretty sure now I got it wrong sometimes but good.

Know but I would let him know. Yeah, they let you know it's pretty clear be easy. So I wouldn't ask him out, but he would know that I was open to it. So that's the difference. That's why girls in church groups. A lot of times are afraid to be nice to some guys because as soon as they're nice all these guys, you know, might start asking them out that they have no interest in or whatever and that's kind of a weird idea. But you know, this lead this just reminded me of something I did recently. I did a real on love and respect men want to be respected women want to be loved and that's the wheel that I think is the secret to Merit and to help the relationships and there's a book called love and respect and it's it's very good and when a woman is not loved, you know, it's like wheel and it'll go it's like a nail in the tire if the woman doesn't respect her husband and he won't love and vice versa and I did a real of this on Instagram and I got so much black for that because of course I was saying, you know, I don't know.

Back, I guess they equated to the word submit. I don't know anyway, but I did get a lot of controversy from that love and respect idea. But I do think that is the true secret to a relationships. Yeah, I am I care less and less about what Twitter thinks about relationships. Yeah. No, actually, it's great when you get that much attraction you Vinny's been in the Penalty Box since we dipped into his marriage. I want to ask you Vinnie. So I want to ask this question. All you guys what are women looking for today secular women.

And are they looking for something? They're not voicing are they being dishonest? Or what are Christian women? What are women looking for? All I don't know. I did not want to throw them all into a box. But I mean, what's your experience? What's your experience? Yes, all women are the same and well with the experiences that I've had now, I'm not trying to put all with all women in the same spot you here, but what I've met diverse they want.

I feel like they want to have like control like how be able to lead. But then also be able to have the men take part in the stereotypical like man roles. It's like well like I can ask you out but or I can say and do whatever I want and wear whatever I want but like you have to step up and still like pay for every meal or or do like everything that's The stereotypical like roles of a man, I think women want to lead or control.

both I feel like A lot of women don't want to lead I don't find a lot of women that want to lead them. They might say they do I think but I do see a lot of women who want to control a lot of women want to control and they don't want to lead. Yes, but maybe it sounds like it's the same thing see I agree with you. I agree with you. I feel like they step into a leadership control mode or position when they don't feel secure or safe or supportive. Oh my gosh that true that I think the role of a man in my job is to provide a covering. Yeah, my wife can just feel the freedom and my daughters to feel the freedom to do whatever they want. And if there's no covering and they'll create the covering because women are natural Hustlers, but I don't think they want that but they're also are there they are often times are nesters and when it comes to Nest you need security if you're gonna security that's real. Yeah. He's been on a tree here, it needs have security. And if I find that a woman feels the most relationship is the best my wife feels seen heard and protected. Yeah, like those three right there and it's like sky's the limit. I'm just you go do whatever you want. I was gonna say and because on the flip side to that. This is a lot less negative a lot of women. I feel like they seek for security and reassurance.

In a relationship from a man just to just a like be reassured that you're seeing that they're seeing they're heard they're loved for their cared for yeah, that's that but sometimes that need is a little too deep it that really it's a little it's a little more I can't be that for you. Yeah, I've had it where like it's like you need to come see me every single day every other day. Yeah. Why don't you text me? Why are you taking so long? Like I come first I come first and I'm like, I'm like, this is a lot for me The Godly husband. It says in script in Proverbs. It says has full confidence in his wife and she brings him honor at The City Gate. You know, I think like I'm a leader I lead Bible study and my husband's a strong leader too. So two leaders, it's not that we're competing because we do different things. My gifts are nurturing the children and I have you know, I have different gifts and he has and I want him to lead and you know, I even told him the other day we had a discussions. I want you to lead that is fine.

It doesn't mean it takes away from what I do. I do things well that you don't do and and we have this great relationship. I mean, you know, it's not a competition but I think the trick is feeling very secure and and I don't you know, I feel confident in my role. There's I don't know my role is to be a nurture to let's see what else it's He uplifts me. That's the thing, you know, we're leaders, but he also wants to see me do really well and whatever I'm doing. So he's my cheerleader, but he's also my leader and I can lead in different and different parts of our household. That's a good question. What do what is What where do I lead? Is that what the question was? I was just what your role you said. What's my role? I am definitely very much a mother. I mean I you know, I nurture the whole family I take care of the kid.

I mean they're older but I still I'm always what do you say to a woman who who like doesn't have that nurture. You know going on my Grandma had that she had utility and Duty. Okay, so it was all the nurture was based on duty and I love Duty for men. Like that's my mom honor and do utility and dude. It's like and so the nurture is like hey, I showed up I picked you up. I did what I would you know what I mean, but there wasn't like, oh, come on, let's bring it in. Yeah like yeah my mom now she does that because she had a lot of healing in her life when I was a kid because of her background there just there was no physical touch in my home unless it was like the occasional backhand.

We just and my dad had me rub his hands, but we just didn't have physical touch so we didn't have that nurture, right but so my mom, you know different now she's kind of healed and she would be that now what would you say to the woman who doesn't have that gear, you know, everyone's got their own love language so to speak and maybe it was you know, maybe your mom's back in the day was Acts of service or what she did was look I did this for you. So once she started identifying what this person how what makes them tick like, maybe it is Physical touch maybe it's appreciation words, you know of affirmation I mean deal for men for me like when my wife my wife's good at love me like that. That's not about let me jump to these guys real quick. What do you guys think the role of a woman is in dating relationships? Is there a role building up can for sure be a huge part of that?

Like I think in Ecclesiastes it talks about how I can and with wisdom and knowledge. There's there's sorrow I think men carry a lot of really intense heavy burdens. A good woman can really just lift you up. And can share that burden with you and that's kind of how God designed it. Right like proverbs 31 talks about you know, she laughs at the time to come she you know shares that burden with you and and then so that's what I would say.

The role for I would ruining relationship. s add that and completely agree that again as attracted my wife because I thought she had such good priorities that I was like yearning for then I tried to adjust all of her priorities over the next couple which I didn't realize I was doing but in hindsight I was like that was not gonna Wetzel Industries. Yeah.

But I think my wife and I think women should they have this ability to leave from the second chair is kind of the concept to like Focus my attention one of the big things going around like Instagram and Twitter is like golden retriever energy. And I identify with that. That is me like I can just go I can just like wind you up and I just go battery powered, you know coin operated insert here, but I don't know sometimes when I have deviated six inches or six miles from the path that we said, we're gonna go on and Maverick knows like miles before the exit if we're gonna miss it and she can just focus me. Yeah because she's so well balanced and that's a personal trait of hers. That's amazing and I want to celebrate with up and encourage and also I think that's a role for many women in a relationship that they seek to lead their household but do so in a conducive man or not their house or the other relationship do so in a conducive manner that just aligns that they're values. They're not doing all the all the heavy lifting in every area right and that's okay, but it's that hold that thought. It's that discernment.

Where women lead for me because I'll be so often and it's actually changed. It doesn't really happen as much anymore. But I'd be like, hey, let's go buy this piece property and my wife would be like, I'm not feeling that the right call, you know what I mean? And if I when I violated that I paid like she high percentage she knew what was up now at that point. I think she's leading, you know what I mean? Or at least it's that partnership. It's not really leading. It's like we're working together, but that's super important Luke. Yeah, we're just gonna say I think you know to further what he and was saying like women are really good at emotionally protecting men. Whereas men are can be very good at spiritually and physically protecting women and when that goes hand in hand, it's beautiful like, you know, a lot of times like you were saying words of affirmation or just that compliment from right, you know that special woman and you're like, it's like it means so much to us and can really build you up and then we're better at physically protecting and providing and that's good. It's like Awesome biotic relationship. Why do why do this? Why do people feel that?

Being tagged with a strength like let's say matter better and physically protecting that is universally true. You give me a fight between and let me pick the Thousand strongest best women in the world or the Thousand best strong men in the world are picking the man. They're gonna win every time every single time. Yeah in a fist fight, you know, I would say even with war with weapons. I just think men are aggressive. They're full of testosterone a whole bunch of studies on like even the way that before they they did studies on Uber driving and they found that there was a wage Gap, but they they didn't allow with Uber driving for you to know if it was a man or a woman. So the statistics came out when they finally went and got all the statistic and the data on this they found out that the women made like five dollars less an hour than the men just because they didn't drive us aggressively. They didn't drive as fast they work different schedules that were more conducive to their time.

Like they just weren't they weren't just grinding like the men and they couldn't when they did the study it was it was completely innocuous as they did it. So people now you were to say like, I love what you just said Luke that women emotionally they have a Whether they fulfill it or not. Yeah to emotionally protect. Why is that that limit it's hated in this culture to say that women are better at this than guys are why is that so hated? Right because we've placed the value on the ability to bring in wealth over the value to build a home, you know and nurture that home. It's really just the value that we place on a certain aspect of society that has really changed how we look at things. You know, I'm saying like if you were to look at what makes somebody successful right? You would probably align it with traditionally more of what a man pursues rather than a woman, you know I'm saying but there is high value on things that a woman brings to the table, you know, their home builders in my opinion the ability to nurture Foster maintain and run a entity as a family right? I don't know just the women in my life that I've seen single mothers or otherwise able to do that is impressive and I haven't seen it in way from a man, you know, I think it's Largely identity issues as well to some of the frustrations that we've talked about offline. Like what's your reaffirmed for and what you see being promoted in society?

Like if I'm a woman in this church or any other and I want to figure out what it is gonna bring me a fulfilling relationship and I look at where I spend seven year eighty percent of my time. It's like athletes social media influencers and musicians that are not probably substantiating the things that align with my values but they're getting the time attention and focus and so I think a lot of people have an identity issue in what it is that they bring to the table. So maybe it's a woman has an amazing career and it's great at what she does. That's also fantastic, but if you're identity is tied up into I need to be these things to sort of man is looking for and then the second that that guy comes across the table. You're like, no, I shouldn't him because you get your eyes set on like what is going to promote fulfill your identity. It's gonna be very hard to be fulfilled in a relationship.

Look, you're gonna say yeah, I was gonna say I think as a culture we've lost we've lost a sense of God. We've lost our morality. I think that's pretty good everyone here. But and you know, the fear of the Lord's the beginning of wisdom, that's where you start and so it's really not surprising. Okay, we've lost a sense of morality that things are so backward. Now, you know, the absolutely humans can't you know, like we're we're rational we're not we get our sense of rationality from God. He's a god of order and when we lose that we are now doing things backward.

So and that's why you know Christian dating we're called to be different. We should do things different in the world. Well and we're dying as a society too that birth rates 2.1 to you know, there's not one Western Nation. That's why I think we're at one point eight and Japan's like at one point six or China is at one point six birth rate, like any nation that is and I would say China's westernize at this point, even though there's still a lot of poverty and third world there.

We're just dying, you know, so to tie back to what you say a lot in the service. You often say the key to contentment is to want less that's true. Right but in society the ideas again go out and get it possible. Right? Yes, and the way in which you go out and get it and hustle is to make money. Yeah, right. And so that's why I said we've lost the as you're saying like what identity we've lost the value that is placed on being able to maintain a home. You know, I'm saying like my wife for example Her mom was a stay-at-home mom. And you know, she's got it the idea right? I need to go out need to be a career woman need to go out and get it and hustle and then you know now that word almost six years into our marriage have almost year and a half old daughter. It's like this is something that I want. She wants to be able to stay at home mom because she see the values that that provides but it's a society you're told as a woman to go out and get it. So when you ask the question as to why is the value of the premium not placed on that home builder abilities because we as a society or just telling everybody just go out and get it, you know, and that it ties back to individualism times back to what you're talking about. The birth rate the delayed marriage the individual is yeah all day care about community and family is the ultimate Community. Yeah, the build off with Devin said like I feel like now Society the idea of what it's like to be successful. It's about going out getting your money and it's not that being a home builder aspect. What's the shiny thing? Yeah, and I feel like that's more of like a behind.

This like, you know women are typically just better at that. At maintaining a home maintaining a family but asking I'm sorry multitasking right patience in general, but it's not but it's not like in Center Stage. It's not at front. They're not seeing doing like lifting the heavy object going out and working and I guess that's probably why it's like it's like so undervalued now and and it's such an understatement of there was just video that came out there was a female comedian and she was talking about she's like in her 40s and how amazing it is not to be in a family not to have a wife are not to have a husband not to have kids and she likes to get up just eat Edibles Chase sexual pleasure go to the gym then fly off somewhere and then go to a wine bar night and I was like how lonely like that sounds miserable and you know what, I mean like the thought of getting up and and like for the guy the other side of the guys is like going there boys play some sports do some gaming for four hours at night until you go to bed four in the morning. Whatever the guys do eat your pizza. The guys have this whole different thing that they can do, but for me like getting up and changing like for diapers in a night when I was a dad and I was you know, young dad and doing those things like I would take that life and push in the heart and going to Trader Joe's with my wife and playing Scrabble.

than any of that stuff that looks bling and like You know. yeah, I I can't necessarily nail the head like the nail on the head of like why that's so like underminded now, I feel like it's just more of like a like a look at me. Look what I'm doing. Look at what I have what I can it's because we like you said we've lost our sense of morality. Yeah, and we've lost our sense of God's importance in place in society would the model of a family is a great model of God's love for us when I look at my daughter or I receive love for my wife like it's it's love that's coming from the Lord, you know, I'm saying so that's why it's undermine is because we don't place as much of an important on you know, God in our society.

But I also think it's identity versus role. I think we get so like our identity is caught up and what we do. Yeah identity is a better word than role. Well, it's identity versus role, right? So, okay identity. I'm a Child of God, right? I'm not a divorce coach or whatever that it, you know, whatever I'm placing above that first and foremost. I'm a Child of God. My role is I am a coach and I am a mother and I do these other things but I think we get so tied up and identity that that we cross it over it gets blurry to I'm a successful, you know, I identify myself with my success rather than simply I'm worthy because I'm a Child of God not because I make x amount of money when you walk in that the roles and the all those things just fall away.

If everyone's walking in their true identity as a child of God a Son of God daughter that you feel you just don't have to prove yourself in the room anymore. Like no one's trying to prove themselves in a marriage. We're just trying to make it work, you know. Go ahead Keegan, then I got my final. Yeah, I think Landing practically, right? All of those things are true. All the identity things that we just talked about and and the lack of God and our society of morality of aspiring to have an identity that's founded in a firm foundation and not quick. I think all those things are true, but practically and is a lot of people I think you're talked about offline and I've talked with you. I don't talk to Luke.

There's a lot of people that are frustrated dating and the 20 to 30 year old range and especially in Christian communities and I will say that You will be more content if you want less, but that doesn't absolve you of doing anything at all. Like if you look at your calendar and you're just doing the same things the same people every week and you're still complaining that you have bad influence. That's probably on you. If you're going with the same group of guys and you can't find a good guy. Like that's probably on you, right? So if you're not making an effort to switch it up and to Be sure identity and reach your identity in things that are meaningful and that you believe but like making a critical effort to do something then you probably haven't earned the right to complain. Yeah.

Earn the right to complain. I like that Luke. I love that. Yeah, I was just gonna say I think to like kind of tie this together you'd asked earlier. What are women looking for after this discussion like Christian men, would you say you're looking for more of like somebody that's like serious about these roles and not like in the hustler because like you see that's like hustle hustle all the time. It's like that's not you know, like it's way more fulfilling to have somebody who's going to be a great mom and a great wife like, you know would right and I feel like that's what is attractive to Christian men for sure.

Yeah, I mean depends on the Christian. Yeah, man, but the guys that are stable I could feel like I could live in a van down by the river with my wife. I'm not us there. I'm not looking for I didn't want to hustle myself. You know, I mean, I just feel like we want to live our calling, you know, and and be the best that we can be as a couple I'm gonna ask your guy's advice as we close. I didn't want to say that it's interesting as I look at.

I'm wondering who's more miserable? right now in regard men or women I know that in regard to divorce 80% in Google this 80% of all. Divorces excuse me, 70% of all divorces are initiated by women seven out of 10. And if the woman has gone to college and his college educated 90% of the relationship. So if you're in a relationship with a college educated woman, and there's a divorce 9 out of 10 times the woman initiated that now granted.

Maybe there's a subscue in there of like 40% of the time the guy cheated so, you know what, I mean like so I'm gonna put you know, maybe he's just a jerk in that whole thing. But it feels like you know, we thought we'd never even got to this point like there's this under You know, you say you hear it your marriage counseling of like women are frustrated with men.

But I don't hear men being as frustrated women like when I'm with talking to when I was talking to the girls or the women I was gonna have on this last podcast. There's like a frustration like guys want to do this aren't they? Step up on that? And do you like just doing their thing and like, you know, they don't think about it. I don't know the waves are good. Yeah, the waves are good. Exactly and that might be the compartmentalize compartmentalize thing.

I just want to ask okay some advice. So I want to finish with this. I'll have India finish if you had advice on dating and relationships on. Just to give to say it was like a sign or to you know, just some advice or something like that. What would you say? What would be the word that you would say? Be patient. The word be patient don't you know on just finding somebody, you know, I feel like with just being in a relationship that that will progress to a marriage. I feel like everybody nowadays are so focused on finding finding their soulmate like I got to find my soulmate, you know, and I feel like with that soulmates are created too. Sometimes soulmates are definitely created but I'm a Believer Harry actually taught me this up like you make your soulmate in marriage.

So right because I've seen soulmates do this. Yeah, you know what? I mean? Like you have to you the souls are bound together, you know what I mean? And You right? Yeah. Yeah, so just like a lot. I feel like a lot of young people like in my age group are like settling, you know, and like are so in love with the idea with their set. What they're doing is they're settling whether waiting for the perfect. Yeah, they have this perfect thing that they want perfect mold like a guy love this but then they just plan B constantly as they're waiting.

is horrible and It's a recipe for for failure, you know, so I feel like and that that will cause terrible toxic relationships that will lead to traumas and will lead to the men closing doors on like the next woman or the woman possibly closing doors on the next man that they meet so just patience is key. Luke I would say one focus on what's in front of you, you know, I think an issue with online dating is it's like really hard to focus what's right here when you know in your pocket, there's there's all this other stuff, you know, just focus on what's in front of you and follow that path And you don't know what app you know what God has in store for you and then secondly trust the Lord in all your heart ways and paths, you know, trust him first get right with God first.

and then you know Then then pursue relationships. Yeah, I just would give a word of advice to close down. There's a lot of different things you can say about an identity. I can say I'm a beloved Son of God and you know guys love feels all the gaps that I have I could say, you know, he's Commander therefore. I'm a soldier I could say, I'm an athlete therefore. I'm always looking to perfect my craft, you know, as far as following God like you need to understand your identity as a Son of God before you can take for yourself a daughter of the Lord because I didn't understand my identity and there were a lot of mistakes that I made because I didn't understand my identity.

I think the most important thing this is you know for my buddies here kind of in the search as well as is that You don't wait for the perfect person to come if you want to. Attract the type person that you want to be with you got to become the type of person that will attract that woman. That's right. You gotta be working. That's and that's an active act. It's not a restful one.

I think also there's a lot of value and decisiveness that we miss. We wait wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait for the perfect thing and like if you place the base value in your life on time because you can't get any more of that and you wait six years to make a decision that decisiveness was probably worth more than that six years actually waited and then you say this all the time you can accomplish all of your goals in life and be totally and happy but if you live by your values you accomplished none of your goals and be entirely fulfilled and I probably say to myself once a day like what are your values you focusing on that? Yeah, you can have all your goals about violating all your values exactly.

What's yours? So it kind of piggybacks? You don't get what you want you get who you are and so know yourself it touches both of what you said. I got to know who you are because if you don't you'll just get that you'll get anything. So you need to know your core values. You need to understand yourself what you are aiming for you. Don't get what you don't aim for but you got to know what you stand for. And so, you know, if I could go back to that person myself and and the dating years in my twenties. I didn't know who I was.

And so if I'd known like what my core values were I would have had a different destination, right? So it's so important to it. And of course going back to know yourself in Christ, then fill up and then you'll you'll attract that that person that caliper of person mine. Was that be intentional and it's same with marriage as well. Let let the lady your your focus that's in front of you.

Know where you are on the map me I had a three-day rule over the third date. I can kind of know it's gonna go I didn't date and after I was 22 after I got out of college, I I was trying to figure out my dating life after just whatever before that but once I got out, I took two years off didn't date it all and then I the first girl I dated we dated before months. We only held hands then we broke up she ended up coming to our wedding because we did it right we were Believers met my wife same thing kept her pure but just let the woman know what your intentions are. Like if you're dude, like what I would say, I don't hit him with him at first time, you know, but by day three to say, hey, I'm you know, I only I dated with intention and this is where I'm going and I don't know if it's gonna work but it looks like it could would you like to go out on a fourth day, you know and just be very clear and be you know communicative and yeah, put your heart into it love Jesus. So hey, this is so good. Like this is a really really good convers.

And I was I was impressed by your guys like knowledge scripture that was coming out and everything. I hope you enjoyed the podcast everyone and I think there's camera here. I'm looking at if not, you're gonna find me Ellen. We will see you at the next one next month. I hope you dug it. If you didn't see the ladies talk they are also on this you'll find us on YouTube Spotify all over the Internet La Jolla Christian Fellowship podcast. We are out.