FEB 14 2023 | What’s Love Got to Do With It S1E1

Sea Change Church · What's Love Got to Do With It Ep 1 · February 14, 2023
Automated transcript. Not reviewed for accuracy.

Here. Hey, welcome everybody to La Jolla Christian Fellowship podcast. I'm Pastor Adam Statler and I'm excited to be here with some friends to talk about What's Love Got to Do with it? It's a conversation on dating Christian dating in the modern world. And with that. I have a co-host as well. You want to introduce yourself? So my name is India Kern.

certified Divorce so I help people who are struggling through divorce and dating issues Sam right on. Well, I have some friends with me and they're going to introduce themselves, but I did ask permission to ask what their age is and what their dating or marital status is we're gonna start with me my names Adam Sandler as I said, I'm 53 years old and I've been married 25 years.

My name is Eden Bryant. I'm 28 and I've been married just over five. Hi, my name is Asha. I'm 39 years old and I am married but currently going through a separation. My name is Kimberly caliberg. I am 35 years old and I'm currently dating. My name is Rebecca Mueller. I'm 27, and I'm single. Let's go turn here. And I am 51 and I am married. So one of the things I just wanted to start with is I Was preparing for this is the dating is like I'm a dinosaur when it comes the last time I asked somebody out on a date, but I ask.

a regular day and almost a couple times a week that we let's go out. Let's have dinner. We're gonna go out tomorrow night as a matter of fact that the last time I actually officially asked somebody out for the first time was in 1996. So match.com, I found out started in 1995. I didn't know that match.com was even a thing. I didn't think it started to the 2000s.

so like online dating was not a thing, although there was a thing where you could go into like the reader and there'd be like kind of like online dating, but you could like call somebody in the readers like a local paper and whatever so things have totally changed and it I am so glad I'm not part of that world right now it is It's so crazy. And when I was reading about the statistics and I see everything that's happening out there. It's kind of nuts. So with that with that said, let me just say that back and back in my day. Um, you know, there was this kind of a Trope there was two kinds of guys there was guys that kind of had it together and could ask girls out and get dates and then there was dudes who couldn't and they're there was not much room at least in the Trope for anywhere kind of in between that you either had game or you didn't and there was you know, a lot of dating around me but dating was very different and if you heard that somebody was dating like you didn't put it up on your profile. Like I'm with this person kind of went through the grapevine. I mean, I think I mean we're almost cell phones, you know what I mean? 94 or something like that. Like I had a cell phone in my car and 89. I thought it was so cool. It was like a big giants. Yeah. I was like Magnum PI, right? So the thing we're about is dating and we're especially within the church. This is for church people or for people that are interested in what do women who try to follow Jesus think about dating and so I guess the first question that I want to know from you because I you know, we'll chime in is this what is the role if any of a man in dating today By the way, it was not hard to find women every woman I asked was like, yeah, we're in.

Yeah, I was excited. I would say to pursue and to do it. Well intentionally, what does that mean do it? Well because as I was reading on about like Kinder statistics, the over Pursuit is a little like that's kind of a thing too. So what do you mean doing it? Well pursuing well, I would say up then typically. someone being yourself being transparent about it and I think prayer is important too. You know, if you're in a community full of Believers just like waiting for an opportunity maybe or like thinking about it a lot more before you act. So we're talking about the role of a man.

So yeah, you're talking about like a man needs to pray through it. Not just like yeah, it's Target Rich environment. I'm just gonna ask her out because whatever reason you think that they should think through it. Yeah, they should be selective I I think building friendship is important first and I've typically have dated guys who have been friends with first. It's like rare form if I'm just gonna go and blind but feeling it out like you know, who is this person observing their character simple things I think first and then making them move when you feel it's time.

So and you're talking about the man for the good I'm talking about the man. Yeah. Okay. So the role is Pursuit. Okay. That's just I could I did put keywords down. So Pursuit is a key role and we kind of down with that you go on agreeing with that. Let's just stay right there. Yeah. yeah, I mean I'd say I would 100% agree everything is sues Sometimes what I've seen especially in the church is that it can be taken too seriously or thought about too much about like pursuing. It's like you don't need to know if you're gonna marry me to ask me on a first date, you know, like think about who I am think about the things you're looking for in a wife and just like take me to dinner that's fine. You know, you think guys like that?

Do I think they think most guys are tripped up because they're like, I'm not sure. Yeah, I think especially in the church. I think it's a little bit different outside the church, even if You're Christians on online dating and stuff but specifically like in a small group or Bible study. Like there's a lot at stake. So, you know, you're in a friend group, you're close with these friends. I don't, you know, you don't want to mess things up. I would assume.

I grew up in the church and I've seen that a lot where there's frustration from women of like why are guys asking girls out the girls are so great in this group and the guys might be interested but they don't want to like mess anything up. So before I was 25 I was Just dating whoever at my Christian college or whatever just because we were dating but I wasn't I mean like if we got married whatever but like when I tried to get when I tried to get my act together I decided I'm not asking anybody out anymore unless I see it but like that's somebody I would marry.

So I I understand that but I was I had matured at that point. So that's is that kind of an older guy thing. Sorry, I'm not saying like just ask whoever you want out. I'm saying like think about it for sure, right and Don't just ask your girl out to have a good time. Like ask her out if you're interested in pursuing her and marrying her.

That yeah 100% so same I think we're saying the same thing. Yeah, so that's the difference of like secular dating right now because I think I have a statistic here, but it's a high percentage. It was more than 50% of most guys are just looking for like quick fun and the Casual hookup. Like that's what all they want. And so obviously we're trying to balance that. What are some other things you're looking so we saw Pursuit and doing it well.

and he needs and for him to Know for I mean for him to know that about himself what he wants what's he what he's going for and to be prepared? And then follow, you know, take the initiative. So I think initiative if I could pick one word is taking initiative. Yeah, and we also use a big word responsibility which is so this is all countercultural words like You know like a responsibility for one.

I don't know if initiative because guys are taking a lot of initiative and so You know going what I'm hearing is that you want them to know themselves right because Direction and if they don't know who they are, that's exactly what they attract just anything. So when you know your values then you can go for that. But if you don't know what you stand for, that's what you're gonna get. You're just gonna get anything and that's what you see in the secular world people just going after anything and then there's no patience whatsoever. And so they they just rapid fire through people and it's it's you know hard to watch. Another thing is I see why do they go for like a long dinner? Why don't you do it like 15 20 minute coffee just like a discovery, right? Like why would you go on a first date dinner for two hours? What if you don't like each other? Oh my gosh.

Note, so this is soaking so this is just for the guys listening. I I'm first I I only asked out girls who I thought she would say. Yes, so maybe I was just I mean I waited you know, but I never I never had anyone say no that I asked out except for one girl that was moving to Georgia and she's moving to Georgia. And the reason is that I think because it wasn't like I had tons of game it was like when I when I asked him out I said, hey my name so you know, so and so we you know matter whatever the reason was and I'd say can we can I take you out for some coffee like three in the afternoon daylight? There's no like I'm dropping you off at your house. There's no meet me there. I'll meet you at the coffee play we'll have coffee and this was on coffee with huge in the 90s a coffee is such a 90s thing and we would just go to coffee. It was so easy because dude that dude showing up to the front door after dark dropping them off in the car. It's all right. Sure. I'm gonna chill like, you know, I don't even count.

Everything is day, but I'll count it as a date. If you see it's a date. Like I don't really care if we go to dinner every night. Like we can take a walk. We're walking fans here. Like it doesn't have to be this dramatic thing. Yeah, but at the same time there is a level of you know, I think making a point to show that you also are like serious about continuing and like pulling out the stops I think is like right really impression. Like it's it's nice, you know. Yeah, but a hundred red roses in the first day, you know like this that's red flag.

Red roses red flag it's with time. You know with yeah, if you like each other then the dinner can come but I just don't get like a full-on day trip to Orange County aquarium. I'm just Amazed by what people do on their first date Notice, I I seem to attract some people I have attracted people that have been extreme like that. But a lot I think some of that is they have very strong romantic expectations.

And yeah, exactly. So the more you know, these other things are more, you know. Moderate and reasonable ways to meet somebody but some men go into it with that. You know the game basically yeah would would pace is in a man's responsibility and I like that word because I totally believe in men's responsibility and roles. Is it a man's responsibility to set the pace or do is it like running Partners? You said it together in the dating or what? Did you find? I think definitely my husband were actually talking about this a couple days ago what we would have done differently in our dating and I think you started getting your like seven 16. Yeah, like 14 15. Oh, yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

But if we had to do it over again. It would definitely be a lot more guarding our hearts and I think for a man. We as women we want to make things work. We want to you know, always take that extra step and it's it is his in my opinion. It is his responsibility to Put everything on the table, like these are off limits. We're not doing these things. We're not going if it's like boundaries. We're not going out to dinner late at night. I'm not dropping you off at the car. We're not hanging out in your apartment alone, right? We really need to guard our hearts in this area because I don't want to you never going to regret not going far. You're always going to regret going too far.

so I think it's it's up to the man to really put that out there first of guarding heart and I think as women we should be on guard of that as well. But it's always gonna feel better. If the man just comes up to you and says, these are my intentions with you. I'm never going to go past this boundary with you and it puts us at ease right we can tell right off the bat. What type of intentions you But I also feel that as a woman we have reset the tone too. Yeah might be a pace and for sure tone and I mean it's a big world out there. There's Temptation on both sides and definitely, you know based off of how we behave what we allow it can.

spiral in a lot of different directions and as Christian women if we want to healthy and holy relationship as we have to take responsibility to also watch what we allow to and I don't know that's amazing. That's wonderful that your husband is like that but oftentimes as women we have to I have to I know I have I have to put my boundaries up there up front and to me that I would years maybe the last seven years. I've really been living the Christian Life and dating and all that before. I didn't put that out there like that, but it just saves so much stress when you just put it out there like that and then and just be for Real about it and then just the nonsense will kind of drop a drop away. Yeah.

I agree with you. I think typically women are putting up the guardrails typically. See I've been in this line of work for a very long time and had a seen a lot of relationships. And what I have found many times is when the man sets the the line that we're and we just went right into the physical because I think there's other pacing that's even as important. Yeah hard-pacing that but let me just finish on this one point of the physical.

I have found so many times that the woman has become the aggressor. In the relationship and a lot of times that's just validation you find out, you know, I was reading all the statistics about the swiping and everything. So when I you know, and the reason it says the number one reason that women are on like these dating apps is because of the validation it gives them like I guess you get a like or every time they swipe or whatever. There's some you know, I'm not on one. I wanted to set up like a fake account, but I did my like you get caught some weird fake account. They're like, what are you doing that? It's where podcasts I promise Adams. Yeah, right. I'm trying to like research it behind the scenes. Like, why does pastor Adam on grinder? That's so weird just playing but I just found out that like I had so many times where like all of a sudden the woman who'd wanted that up front when that guy set the tone the woman became the aggressor.

Probably seen it seven to 10 times in people that were like engaged and dating and I was counseling through them. I mean a lot. And so that pace there's this validation thing with women. I mean preached about that yesterday. What's that all about like in regard to the I don't know it's kind of getting off topic but Validation about I mean, I mean, I mean guys aren't looking to be validated. Yeah, I think a big part for me at least what I've seen with a lot of my girlfriends it kind of stems from yourself worth and like where where is that? So I think one thing that you touched on of like no who you are. That's that's huge.

I think before day like I've dated when I was still like figuring out who I was and it they never worked out. You know, that's what you yeah. Yes exactly because you then you attract someone who's like figuring out who they are and they don't know the pace to say and the whole thing is just all over the place. But for sure like if my so as a Christian woman like my worth is in the Lord, you know, and like who he says I am.

I've known that my whole life, but I haven't like owned that probably until like six years ago and I really was like, okay who Am I who does Christ say that I am versus who does this man say that I am and so in in dating then it became like there's less pressure when I am when I know who I am in Christ size versus Trying to find that validation in a man's eyes, right you said and jump in at any time index. I know you have great stuff this word initiate when it comes to I think one of the roles of men is to initiate I think women and men initiate but I think it's definitely if there is not initiation in a relationship. I will always blame the man. I don't know why I'll personally give like I don't hold women to the same standard of initiation as I hold men to I just because I think you guys use that word. I think it's true initiating prayer initiating the pacing initiating the guarding of the heart the initiating the protection not that women shouldn't but if they if they didn't I'm not going to hold them to the same standard when it comes to initiating a date how many of you would ask a man out?

No. I mean I have like I'm not yeah, I'm not ashamed to say that but I think that the Lord has definitely Shown me that I would prefer to be asked out at this point in my life. Like before I think I was okay with it, and it's it's funny that you see like Pace because I think that This is me personally with the pace thing is like you have to be careful not to try to manipulate a situation to like move along a certain path. It's like you really have to consider the other person where they're at where their hearts at the entire time and sometimes that means tabling it and waiting and continuing to like explore even friendship options, but Preferably I would not like to be asking out guys. So yeah, that's that's true for all of you. But yeah, I mean I haven't dated in years but I was divorced so I did have a dating period then and it was so foreign to me. It was kind of like Pastor. Adam said I dated the last time I dated before I was divorced It was 95. So I I didn't get what year was 2000 like 12. I started dating and I had no clue. I was asking me what are the rules because I don't like this because what would happen is I would have I would go out with someone and then I would see him on Facebook and I always see I was like wait a second. I it was so confusing to me. I'm like back in the 90s. We didn't know what they were doing. Right? He's like wine tasting with some other woman. So I was fumbling my way through it and I made a lot of mistakes until Well, like I said and this is the quote that I love to say to to women and men who are dating you do not attract what you want you attract who you are and until I got really solid on who I was then I attracted my husband actually, but before that I was attracting a reflection of myself and I was broken for your greatest needs. Yeah, I don't know not sure you want to yeah, I'm sure you want to attract your needs. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?

Um interesting like so for me a woman asking me out would be just be a non-starter. We'd be done at that point. I I it just would as I mean, there's look I looked at there's nothing in the Bible. There's no right. There's no sin. It's just the way you do things. It's like how you run a church. There's different ways to do it. And there's nothing that's right or wrong. What I what I knew is is women needed to know like I knew every woman in the room who was in my realm of like age and interest like I knew every there was no one got by me. I knew who everyone was and if I wanted to ask you out.

I was gonna ask you out and take the initiative to do it now. One of the things now some cues would be. All right. I don't mind some cues like oh, how you doing? Like, oh, I like your shirt. It looks nice. Oh, well, she likes you know what I'm saying? Like, all right that helps, you know, because there's some, you know women you see and you're just like Out of my league, you know what? I mean? Like, you know, I mean if they if they give you a cue that like I like your character, you might be ugly like I am or whatever but I like your character. So maybe I'll give you it, you know a chance today whatever but so I think the cues are important but it is a dance and that's part of the romance, right?

I want to use that word romance. What does that mean? I love it. in just showing someone that you care for them. That's that's kind of what it what it means. Yeah. Yeah, it can be like the smallest thing. You know, I don't immediately think a hundred roses at my doorstep when I think romance totally misunderstand room, right? Yeah, and that can be like potentially maybe there's there's a time that that happens. But yeah, I think the smallest things just showing something that you care and I think we are losing courtship like in today's there's no it's just fast and no one has any patience and you don't get to enjoy the whole courtship.

Even like the Kinks of dating and the like it's not all butterflies all the time. It's a lot of communication and working through challenges and communicating well and explaining how you feel during the process, too. It's hard. Yeah, well attraction I think attraction is totally overrated like now where it's like, you know, you know who you're attracted to and how you feel in the moment and for it's only in the luxury of Western society that we have the ability to marry who were attracted to it was all utility and can you birth some children? Can I provide you children? Can we a survive the plague and all the you know what I mean? Like you're just trying to find somebody we could work it out together. So that Civilization can move on one of the the statistics I saw was that you know, the the lack of actual dating that happens with all the swiping people left and right, you know, and and basically dehumanizing people is is one of the things that it said is ruining courtship just because people are being even more what's the word not just humanized but objectified.

But it isn't objectified like it used to be when I was at a bar when I was still drinking. You know what I mean? Like you look at, you know, one woman and your friends, you know, you think you know because she how she, you know looked and you're with your friend, but it just Mass going through just a face. You know what I mean there you never spoke to him you never there was no interaction. So yeah, but that romance is is interesting. Let's I don't what is romance actually like what would romance be to you like intimate moment of connection with the person and I mean it can be in all the different aspects of you spiritually mentally emotionally physically.

That it, you know, there are different parts of that. That's what to me what it feels like what it is. It's experience. It's good. I think for I think for me when I think of romance, it can be really little or really big like my husband gets me ice coffee after work whenever he calls to check in on me about how my day is he goes out of his way to do it. So for me, that's just so sweet when someone takes just a step out of their day instead of coming straight home.

Or it could be something as simple as you know, I want to go for a walk. Do you want to take you know, our daughter and our dog on a walk together and for me that's romance. It's just those little Simplicity in life that I never saw Growing Up So to experience that I feel so special. Yeah, you know what, I think More dudes should care, you know as opposed to that big day. I'm gonna get a helicopter. We're gonna Malibu for the weekend, you know for the Saturday. It's always sounds fun.

It's always sounds fun. And there are moments for that. But I think we try to like it's like the bachelor. Yeah, you know, it's so unrealistic The Bachelor should just have people play Scrabble. You know what I mean? Like take a road trip and play Scrabble and it was that was what I was looking for when I my friend got married and he had this wife and I watched him playing Scrabble together and I'm like, that's what I want.

And it was funny because when I met Carrie, it was like it was all different reasons why I wanted to date her. I wanted somebody I had this list and the list was I did with my friend. It was like 10 things to rate a woman but there was nothing physical it was like could you play Scrabble with him was actually one of them. Would you take a road trip with them? Would you like do you like to have conversation with them it was you know, stuff like that and it was funny because there was probably four or five women. I was at that point. I was made a decision. I'm only a date you if I think I can marry you and after three dates, I'm gonna know and I'm gonna cut like I'm gonna cut or keep going and I'm gonna let you know after three days, let's continue on I'm only date and you after I won't say that the first day but on the third day look, I think after three days because before we go on four, I'm gonna have that conversation and just I don't see it going anywhere, but, you know, we ended up that and we build we built to this relationship because we it's funny. We said we weren't I wasn't the most attractive guy to her and she wasn't the most attractive woman to me. There was other people that we were Oh, there's more of a physical or something else going on but there was this we built it on this friendship thing. It was more Scrabble than it was helicopter rides, you know, but that's built to like our go ahead and what you did was exactly what we've been talking about is you had these things you wanted, of course, they weren't all values but they were like can she play Scrabble? I did the same thing and I was like likes to cook like sedance. I likes to go. That's the second biggest thing on dating apps that women want is a man who can cook I read that I totally read that a man who could cook. Yeah. What's so crazy though.

I at the time I was still trying to figure it out and I did write one physical thing. I wrote tall tall my husband six five. So it was crazy how that worked. I mean, I rode my lips. He's a mess. I just Pro rugby prayer International Hall of Fame program. Yeah, so it's it's a pretty powerful thing. What's the second question since second question is what is the role of the woman?

to respond yeah, you just have your situation and you respond yes or no, or maybe so Yeah, I think. Obviously, but like being honest with that, I think especially in dating. We don't want to like hurt a guy's feelings or I've seen that a lot with our our friend group even and you have the best intentions, but it's like just tell the guy no, like if you're not interested tell him no and you can say that in a kind way and right and otherwise you want to serve. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so it's over if in response because things are different than they were and so this is going to take me to another question, but I found out that on these dating apps if you respond. Yes, are you connect? I don't know how they connect by like they they reach out to you and you can tell I don't know what I'm talking about, but there's a night if you say there's a 90% chance that they will respond to you and if a woman that a man will reach out, but it's not always exactly true in the opposite when it came. Let me just has this in your best year.

How many times were you asked out per year? Well, I just what I'm trying to say is I'm not what I'm trying to ask is like how how much do women get asked out? That's what I'm trying to figure out without being swiped on. Where you're on your life at I have had times where like I was reserved and didn't do anything. I mean it has to do with what you're putting off to doesn't it and where you're at your environment or if you're out and about. I mean I've had years where it was in the double digits and I have years it was in the Cinco digits, you know, so yeah. It depends on like where you're at you're at and life if you're like more reserved and you're staying home and like so, you know, like okay what you're doing if you're like out and about social you're gonna get asked out all the time. What was that right at home girl? Okay everywhere. She goes I mean I mean, do you kind of a DM at 10 pm is?

A GM? Yeah, that's a yellow flag for me. Yeah, that should be a red flag here. They had a different day. Why when you say what it was there was a different name for that. It had something with a call. It was some kind of call. I think it's just a booty call. Five years I think but when I was and I'm not reserved like I'm all like you're one of me nice to all these people or whatever. But yeah, I'd go on like tons of dates because I'd say like, yeah, why not like you don't know like how it's gonna go? I might be great. And so 78% of people on dating apps are men.

our man 21.9% are women. He's Bumble. It's a little higher on Bumble like 10 or 15% higher where they get to make the first and that makes sense because that doesn't really seem safe to me. So there was a stigma right there was a there were in the 90s there was an on there if you were dating online, you're a loser. Like I never dated online. Yeah. I mean though the world's changed like that isn't a stigma anymore changed. Okay, you're is there but then I realized everyone's doing it. You're loser.

If you're not doing it. I'm not doing it. Why do I need to do that? You just need to have a little game. You know what I mean? Like no one ask a woman out. It's not that hard. You know, like why do you need an app? Dating apps are bad at all. Like I don't know I found just an algorithm. Yes. Haven't found their spouses. I for me. I noticed that Typically when I was on the apps, I wasn't fully trusting in the Lord to provide me a husband or a boyfriend. I was striving and it was like, okay, I'm gonna use this app to like make it happen and swipe. So it was more of a control I'd say that about makeup you could say that about makeup or anything you for sure. That's real. Yeah.

Thanks for being honest. I mean, that's very yeah honest to Say that that's real. Yeah. Yeah that can I agree with I can connect? Yeah, why is that? Why is that that so that didn't connect with me as much because I feel like you can strive anytime like you can show up and just be that the word was desperate back in the day and I'm saying so how the I guess I kind of lost my point. So here's and yeah, why was that I feel like control.

Yeah, I guess that's that's true. So so dating app like did you would you use dating app? Oh you say you were still? It's like been a long time. So you're like 26, right? 28 28. Yeah, and you talk like your 50 old soul old soul. Scary it's scary. There's no way I would be on that. Weird of something bad happening to me but just scared of the rejection and getting ghosted. I think it would be too scared according to the statistics. That doesn't happen. Yeah. So a lot of people I know really maybe afterwards it happens. But like you get that first date you get the first yeah date and then all the sudden they don't exist anymore.

That would be yeah too hard for me to take I would rather go on a day with someone that got referred to me or refer that I could feel close. That's maker match. Yeah, so she asked about the roles or the other rules the rules. What did we say respond? And yeah what you got what do I got? But even respond negatively like oh, yeah, I I would say like relating it back to the PACE. Yeah is not this is I think Keith for maybe women is not trying to move a relationship in the direction that you desire but keeping in mind that the person that You're dating has their own heart and is trying to hear from the Lord, too.

so I think Allowing the pace to be set by him. You know, it's like I think sometimes ladies we feel as though okay, if he's not going to do it then I'm gonna do it and I'm Gonna Fill that space whether it's like, you know, small things in the pursuit but taking a back seat and allowing him even time to make that decision I think is something that we should be better at India. How important is pacing once you're married because you can't you don't want to lose like pacings important. I find that I just I run too fast for my wife, you know what I mean until give me an example. Um, I think we'll be out on you know date night and as opposed to slowing down at dinner. I'll just not be aware of where she's at not pacing her heart. Just talking about me that or you know, singular focus on date night.

You know what I mean? That isn't having dinner, you know what I mean and just not being just I think that pacing spiritually pacing. I don't know just the I don't know. Yeah, I think it's super important. I'm trying to come up with an example myself. I have a husband that is if you know anything about personalities, he's very like slow to speak. And so I'm a little more. I'm more happy. Yeah, I'm like, it's an eye disk is what I am and so I talk a lot and he's just he processes and so sometimes I have to match his level because we're different we're different, you know, and the peppy person like myself is always seen as the most annoying one the one who's chill. I don't know about you but like my wife's super chill and more. Can you just stop talking? You know, I'm like no. Hey wait one thing at a time, you know. Yeah, maybe Pepe should be. Oh he always says I'm a man. I can't multitask.

Yeah, so pacing is super important any other any other role like what's the role and we're talking about dating. I guess we'll talk about marriage on a different day, but Parole but a responsib. Ility to make sure that you're keeping your values in check. Because I think you can waste a lot of time each other's time when you're trying to change someone to have them have the same values as you.

And that can become really frustrating and instead of just this person is this way and I'm this way and it doesn't make them a bad person, but we just don't connect in that way and I think we as women at times try to either change ourselves with what we actually want or try to change the man to be who we want them to be rather than just cutting the losses. Yeah. I have a good story actually to this which you're exactly saying so it's a personal story but it my husband doesn't mind sharing because he says it all the time. So when we were just started to date we've been dating a few months and he said he's just say he's in sale so he's like, is there anything that was prevent you from taking this to the next level being meaning marriage?

and I was like, yeah, he was like what what is it he goes and I said, well, I always told myself after my first marriage that I would marry a Christian and I would never compromise that and you're not a Christian I said, but you can't do it for me. so that is my concern and so he's like prisoners dilemma they call he was like oh Okay. Well, let me let me see what I can you know, so he starts thinking he starts going to Bible study ended up going to this intense Bible study where they prayed for an hour straight. I was like maybe not don't start with that one.

It's been slowly, but I said really you cannot do this for me you cannot and he didn't do it for me. He started exploring, but he was not a Christian when we were dating. Wow, would you guys date it on Christian? I have missionary dating. It's horrible. Oh, yeah, what if they're on the the trail it he was a Seeker is what I told myself. It's on the trail. I think everyone everyone's on the trail. Anyways, I mean, there's room like I think the Holy Spirit I'm not even gonna go there but Yeah, I just I know that God I knew God was telling me no from the start and I compromise. Yeah, like I had people tell me all that. It was foolish with me to be spending time with this person. I like brought him around my community and they were like nah, so yeah it just and I want to I want to relationship where the person's praying through it too. It's that's like a zero compromise thing, you know, but the Lord's pruned a lot in my life since yeah, and I've seen it up close and personal to having an unevenly yoked marriage and it's it's a lot of pain because you maybe as the wife you want your spouse to, you know be this man that leads the family in a Godly way and then they're just not that or vice versa, you know you as a husband you want your wife to help raise the children and help bring them to the faith, you know, and they don't want any part of that but I think another piece is they can't just say their Christian. Yeah, they live it out. You know, we have a lot of claimers but not a lot of Walkers. So yeah, I think that's something that's really hard with online dating. Is that like I don't know what the percentage is, but it feels like 90% of Americans say like I'm a Christian like they'll click the Box Christian and I stopped I literally stopped saying like on my list of things like that. I want Christian and I'm like no, I need a man that like loves Jesus Christ and has a relationship with him first and foremost and it's not like obviously they're gonna say I'm I'm a Christian but so much more than than just like checking that box.

Why are women waiting so long the average age to get married now for a woman is 31 Point whatever and in Europe, it's 34 that's one of the reasons the birth rate is declining below what we can sustain as a western civilization. Is it empowerment? Like why are they waiting so long? I mean I know like for me and other people I know.

You have things on your agenda that you want to do and you're focused on yourself and achieving your goals. And that's just I know for me. I had these goals I wanted to achieve and and that's what I was focused on. Yeah, so there is that that's the thing with women right? It's that balance between goals and then you have some kids.

I mean, yeah, I I think there is a culture and this is I think amongst even Believers too of wanting to be okay with not needing that in our lives and like for whatever. I mean, I feel like I played into that for so long too is like I was pulling myself that I didn't want to get married and I was you know, I had this desire in my heart and still do but I could easily I can still play the game of like I'm not gonna date for a while and continue to focus on myself and I think there are times for that seasons for that for sure. I don't know why.

Women are older and getting married. Now. I think that there's a combination of things but think personally I'm at the point where I'm just waiting on the Lord by 2030. two percent of all women of birthing age will be single. Women are becoming more and more single and they say that's gonna go higher and higher up to like 50 60 70 where the majority of women are are single, why are women single? I think it kind of makes sense for like our our culture and our society and how I think it's amazing that as women now. We have more opportunities than being a wife and a mother. I think that's great. But I think like for me, I've always known this since I'm the kid. I'm I want to be a wife.

I want to be a mother and I'd love to be a stay at home mom and it was hard for me. I think in high school and college when I started kind of like becoming a more of an adult to be like wait. Can I own that as part of my Identity or is that bad? Like, I feel like it was almost bad to say that I want to be a mom and I had to work through that I'm like no like I that's what I want. So that's okay.

But then even you know, I'm 35 and as an adult in my career, that was also a challenge of like how do I like I love what I do and I love the career that I have and how do I pursue that and hold that but also not hold that so tightly that that if I do have the opportunity to have children that I that I feel like I'm it's just hard like how do you hold both of those things? You know, so that's that's a little bit of like my like where I'm at right now with that. But yeah, I think I think there's also that there's this lie that self-fulfillment and achieving your goals true should be number one above creating a family and familial goals and Legacy.

Absolutely. It's looked at it like accomplish everything you want by 34 and then you can accomplish the family stuff when in actuality a good piece of advice to my mom gave me she was like you didn't even accomplish whatever you want. Just not everything right now and I really took that and ran with it like hey, I can take this time to raise at my kids and be present and if I want to have a second career from 40 to 65, I can do that as well and not look at as you have to be this incredible career Woman by 35 and we sacrifice the time so we could have one parent my wife be at home. And then now she's 48 but she's going back to school. She's doing this career and she does feel lost. Like there was a there's a cost to that for sure. But you said the individual is the most important thing and it's more important than the clan or the family or the tribe, you know, and I don't know I just feel like Things are more important. I don't I'm not a fan of the two of the mandatory to income family like World War Two kind of destroyed that like women went into the workforce more money was coming in and they're like we can charge more for everything. So then everything goes up and now you like man or woman we can't get back. How do we get back where someone can stay home with kids like someone needs to be home with the kids and someone's gonna have to sacrifice and I'm more than willing to do it. But yeah, my biggest goal in my life is the love God love my wife love my family and then all the other careers I don't even care about anymore.

because need to be very clear with is our expectations for when we go into marriage. You know, my aunt told me something one time where she said when I was dating I told whoever I was dating. I'm going to be a stay-at-home mom. So if you have an issue with that, then we're not going to be a great pair because that's my heart's desire. And I want that. So I think that's important as women too to be very upfront with our hearts. I like what you said. Excuse me.

I was a stay-at-home mom, and I do not regret it at all and I started a career after in my 40s and I am so happy that I stayed home with the kids. So you can start late. You don't have to start traditionally, you know, it's such a drive to be successful and we validate our whole, you know, boss woman like, you know, exactly. Sense of just how I've my upbringing like I came from a situation where there was just no money and there was just fear of lack and everything was like I can't depend I was just trained you can't depend on anybody but yourself, right and I just was wired like that for my family and my sister's the same way. Yeah, it's role versus identity. Yeah ultimate ashes the ultimate boss lady. I mean like you were running no sit working for huge corporations running everything, you know, good salary the whole thing. What was that? I mean you did that.

Okay, you're still doing it the Lord will find a way to to bless whatever you're doing. Did I do that he went and he met me and allowed me to stay at home with my little Tabler while I'm doing that. Yeah, that was again. That was awesome. Bringing my family around me. Yeah, so he went he said, you know what? That's great. But let me just go and just give you more margins so you can do it my way. So we're gonna Land This Plane here in a second. I I want to talk about provision because I feel that it's the man's responsibility to provide and my daughter and I our daughter and I are having a lot of conversations about this and I said that's not a exclusion of a woman providing but I think that if a woman should expect a man to be able to provide now. I said my one daughter she hasn't doing modeling I said if you got married and you're making like three million dollars a year and your husband's making whatever he just needs to make enough to provide like so okay, you're making the gravy. Okay. So now you're gonna get to do all this stuff because you're doing that but you shouldn't have to do that. I believe that the role of a man is to create first of all to see a woman to to validate a woman and to give her space and margin to do whatever she wants with no responsibility on her part to have to provide to make it happen now, so there's a lot of responsibilities for women. She's got to provide she's got to be there. She's gotta, you know work alongside, you know side by side both Partners. I want to support what she's doing, but what do you think about that idea of like Women shouldn't have to like like men should have a provision. That doesn't mean that they can.

but you know, I got to be able to provide but I think I think what it shows. Is that men also. have that Desire and coordinate like they want to do that. They want to take care of their family. It's absolutely men of God, that's a protect and to as well you're dating to look for that but also in your marriage to see that and to encourage that that is a good thing and you don't want to downgrade someone and make a man feel like that's a bad thing that he wants to be able to do that for you as a in the marriage field, but I think providing also goes a lot a bit layer deeper than just salary range. Yeah and providing protection for your family.

But for example right now I make a lot more money than my husband does but that's because he is going for a dream to be a business owner. And so right now he left his career where he was making he was making. Yeah, it's making a lot more than me to now make a lot less. But his goal is to provide for our family so that I don't have to work if I don't want well, we're okay. So I would say this we're free in Christ. So I'm not sure the roles if you're free, you're free indeed. So I think the roles are a little bit more up for grabs, but that doesn't mean the design has changed.

And so I think there's some design issues in men and women and and so I guess what I'm trying to do is provide. I feel really responsible to provide a covering. You know just a covering so she feels like I'm free. I want to give her room and margin and go explore run and chase your dreams, but don't feel like you know, you've got a cover me but yes, you know with love. Yeah. Yeah, and I think there's Seasons to like you know, I'm I'm not married but seeing my parents go through different seasons of Where my dad was unable to be like Financial provider?

Yeah, it's definitely I don't have guilt. Yeah, so but I love what you said about that. Overall the the covering and like making decisions to protect and making decisions to move the family forward or in a good way, you know willing to do it. Look it might not work out. He might not be able to provide you might not have the town or the gifts or whatever but it's the willingness, you know, and I'm saying so it's that it's not deadbeat, you know or gamer, you know, I think that's that's something I feel like I heard about like a podcast from like a dating book.

I think a lot of times when you're dating like oh my gosh, this guy so much passion and dreams and that sounds fun. But it's like well, it's actually fun is like his work ethic like what's actually gonna Duty? Yeah, you know like so how that's a huge thing for me that I look for is like what's his work? Ethic? Like what's it? Where's his heart right in like wanting to provide for the people that he like loves and cares for and the thing that's that hits different with you ladies is none of you feel desperate to be validated and any more maybe you never were but I don't sense that.

You know what? I mean? It was so obvious. When I would meet girls and I'd be like she had a bad dad. She's an easy target if someone wants to user as a Target, it was obvious. I just do s*** about that. Yeah, yeah. You have another question. No, no, let me I'm gonna finish the last one. It's the last thing we're gonna we're gonna close we got three minutes on this. What's the biggest like Turn off so it'll shut you down like for dudes. Like what would you tell guys like don't do this?

Because I think like crazy women can be desperate men can be desperate. Yeah. Oh my goodness. One I mean one thing. Yeah, just one thing. Well, what's the thing that like I brat is it bragging is an arrogance. Is it all those things? I mean? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no like that. I boundaries for me are huge. Like if you're not gonna Stewart my boundaries. Well, then I'm tapped out like already, you know that I'm done so that one is huge for me and then Yeah, I think Pride can kill a lot of things including a relationship.

Yeah, I'd say I'm like a really simple basic if you're just going on a date how they treat other people. I think that's a huge thing. Just absolutely watch how they treat other people. You know, how they treat the server the rest. Yeah you and and that's more when you don't know that like when you're not like friends with someone you're going on a day and stuff but Yeah, I think I think a huge like immediate know is when they're not firmly rooted in Christ and you can I can just feel like okay.

Yeah, me too quick quick hitters, and then we're gonna show. you as a woman boundaries. Yeah, just humility humility goes a long way. I want to end with this story. My wife went away. We have this thing or it's really cool where we we're probably take three days of a month each where we just go be by ourselves. We have that space. She's happy with that.

I'm happy with it. It just really good for relationship. So I had my my 15 year old with me all weekend. And on Friday. We're like, hey, let's not just do Doom scrolling, you know on Insta or whatever. Let's plan our weekend. And so we were she wanted to watch the Lord of the Rings. She never watched it. So we set up in the fellowship hall we watch it then we made dinner and we went to basketball and shot. We worked out. We did all this fun. We had it's had a great weekend and she goes, you know, she goes that was such a fun weekend. She goes is it weird to think like when I get married like that's what I I want like that I said no, this is normal I said this is this is what the this is why you have a dad to to show that this is what marriage is this relationship? And then I said what happens is once you find a man you build you've learned those skills the boundaries the The planning the fighting it out when we get upset with each other all that stuff. And I said once you have that then after the Covenant then you have that sexual component that is reserved for that relationship. But my job is every other element except for that in that relationship to show you that and I said and she goes well many of my friends don't have that and I said, well, this is normal.

And she goes it is and I'm like, this is normal. This is what normal is even though the world it's weird now and all messed up. This is normal, and I guess that's so important of like reclaiming what is normal, and I really appreciate you ladies being here in India. Thanks for co-hosting with me, and we will have you ladies again for a part two at some point. I'm bringing the guys in next. I'm Gonna Fill the couch and a week or so with the dudes and before Valentine's Day. We're gonna be putting this out.

So thanks a lot bless you guys. Peace.